Royal Adelaide Hospital
Friday, December 19, 2008
Hello to all friends of the RAH.
It is time that all South Australians and friends of the Royal Adelaide Hospital had the opportunity to air their views about the plan to close the RAH and build a new institution.
As chairman of the SAVE THE RAH ACTION GROUP, I invite you to add your thoughts.
Let the debate begin!
James Katsaros.
300 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 300 of 300I have just returned from Tasmania and they are having the same delemma there as to either rebuild the Royal Hobart Hospital or move to a completely new site.
The Tasmanian Labour Government are taking the approach that this is such an important decision effecting future generations that they have this matter in the public domain and are inviting the voters to comment.
This is quite a different approach from the Rann Labour Government who were "elected to rule" and have made this decision on our behalf,having kept it a closely guarded secret until the decision was made!
We may make jokes about Tasmanians but somehow I think the joke is on us.
Regret asking-I suggest that the important vote question below is a bit ambiguous, and may lead to erroneous results. Suggest Rebuild/Renovate at present site for The RAH.
Hi all i currently work at the RAH and i belive that it should be completely rebuilt from scratch. THe rah is so old and just renovating it would be impossible to make it like a new hospital with all the features which are needed to promote a healing place.. royal perth hospital is rebuilt a new hospital due for competion soon so how come we cant accept the fate of the rah. So let them do what is needed for patients of adelaide. But dont call it the Marj keep its name..
The so called Govt. is making a mess of our health system:
1 The non- sense MJN proposal
2 Stage 3 QEH redevelopment on hold indefinitely.
3 Glenside destruction with mentally ill pts roaming and scaterred around adelaide metropolitan suiciding and destroying themselves eg jumping off bridges.
4 Emasculating Modbury.
5 Naming Cancer Research FMC Lance Amstrong centre. Govt that is sports-mad!!
Let us face it the Emperor has no clothes!Marion swimming centre blow out from 50 mil to 80 million in 18 mths. MJN blow out from 1.7 billion to 3.4 will not be off the mark.
I think this govt. is incompetent and should be out the door next election.
Yes, I totally agree with Francis Ghan, it wont take 15 yrs-it will be done in stages-just like RPAH in Sydney. It remains a Centre of Excellence, and the renovation/re-build, didn't bother anyone. Heavens above, there's so many examples-certainly in UK, Gyes, Barts, Royal Marsden. When will they ever learn-if at all?
The name Marjorie Nelson Jackson hospital is going to be dropped. Just heard on 891 ABC
Mr Rann et al, this debate is about principles, NOT personalities! At the risk of repetition, what happened to the Myer Remm Centre, The State Bank and of course, the MFP-the latter costed a lot, but many still don't know what it was-it like the Marj., simply was a good idea at the time job! Start packing your office Sirs to make way for Martin Hamilton-Smith & Co., who do possess logical common sense without thought disorder. Take Note!
Today's announcement of discarding the MJN name is round one to you Mr Katsaros et al!
Keep up the great work!
Keep up the fight Dr Katsaros!! Congratulations for winning the first round!
Congratulations to the good Doctor.
Yesterday John Hill released a statement to the media about the changing of the name of the new hospital from MJN back to the R.A.H. WHICH IS GRET NEWS.
But in the e-mail which we all recieved in the opening sentence was the statement the Govt has already started building the new hospital, maybe i am missing something but it seems this govt will simply push ahead with the new hospital despite public opinion, despite 2010 election and referendum outcome, sorry but i do not understand whats actually going on here
Yes, I concur with the above.
Hippocrates (460-377BC), stated, "One must attend in Medical Practice not primarily to plausible theories, but to experience combined with reason." Messers Rann, Hill et al, follow the above "Father of Medicine". You may achieve this by consultation with the people who possess these qualifications-Not clerks. Ever heard of Millieu Therapy? It plays a significant part in Patient Care. The RAH MUST stay put-renovate it, but in stages.
It was a real shame that such a lovely lady, (no apology for lack of political correctness)as Marjorie Jackson Nelson, was placed in such a difficult and controversial position.
As a parent of someone who has needed care in public hospitals for over 30 years, I feel that we all should remember the basics.
When we are sick we like to be treated by Doctors and Nurses with the greatest expertise.
We trust the equipment used to assess our diagnoses and treatment options is the best available.
We would like our surroundings to be clean and reasonably pleasant.
We hope we don't have to stay too long before going home.
We hope the food isn't too bad.
Importantly, should we need to come back on a regular basis we are assured of the familiarity of all that being ongoing.
There has never been a problem about any of the above for us at the RAH.
We've seen major renovations, but there is usually something happening regarding upgrading every time we've been there. Regular maintenance and upgrading should be par for the course in either a new or older facility.
The new sanctuary area is lovely!
I'm getting on a bit, but it's amazing what a couple of drapes and touch of paint does for me.
After reading the comments made, I am in agreement with most.
Car parking is a distinct advantage at the current site. We have the park on hospital grounds, two nearby on Frome Road and then Pulteney St etc.
We live in the country and so rely on this facility.
I think of the old song
'The Grand old duke of York
He had ten thousand men .....'
I wonder should the new RAH go ahead whether there will be a situation when 'they will be neither up nor down' when the money is no longer available to fund completion.
Ask the people! Even if we don't like the ultimate decision we do like to be part of the consultation process.
The reason Media Mike and his 'team?' as sliding down the scales is that it seems they grab the nearest idea thrust in front of them and then fail to plan for the whole state.
Once one realises that it is easy to see why Media Mike thought that creating a new vanity project for his ego - the rebuilding of the hospital (but down the road) would help HIM.
It is not about the people of South Australia.
It is to be a monument to Media Mike's ego.
And don't think he is over the renaming disease yet.
I can see him opening it as the Gough Whitlam Health Facility.
Why does Media Mike persist in ignoring all the other upgrades needed in hospitals across the state?
When one looks at the SA opportunities Media Mike and his 'team' let slip through their fingers it is tragic.
Yet media Mike clings on like a man dying to a perceived lifeline.
Mike announced Swimming centre will go ahead. Wow, Media Mike is on the job.
Mike announces the new hospitial. Without consulting the people who will use it.
But his announcement gets him in the paper. Mike will not do the hard yards.
Cheltenham will be Mcmansions before long.
The Clipsal site the same - when that Clipsal would be great as a central base for a swimming centre.
Marion shopping centre needs all the carparking it can get - and the swimming centre (if it goes ahead) will only make that situation worse.
Marion already has a great pool for the locals. And the beach is nearby.
A major Adelaide swimming centre should be nearer to the centre of Adelaide. The Clipsal/Bowden site would be great.
The site on Richmond road at Keswick still awaiting Built Environs to build whatever they intended there - with some land added would be great for a Stadium> It is close to transport and to the city.
And in the mean time Media Mike - leave the parklands alone.
At least Marjorie Jackson Nelson has the brains to walk away from the fiasco that is this government.
What is in the best interest of the Public of S.A. for our future Health System, Redevelope the R.A.H. or build the R.A.H. on a new site..?
Have a look at the Patient waiting lists, elective surgery waiting times etc, and with an aging population what will best serve us long term. I dont really care if we rebuild the existing R.A.H. or build the R.A.H.on a new site, as i work in the existing R.A.H. i have an interest in staying here but do wish our public money to be spent the best way possible and i feel a new hospital is the better way to go rather than continually patching up the existing site, will a new hospital surve this state better and reduce waiting times, maybe we also need to address ways of recruiting more medical - nursing staff, how about theatres which operate 24/7...now theres an idea, why do we invest so much money in facilities which operate 9 to 5..seems a waste. If we take out the emotive aspect we are after all like any processing factory so how do we optimise our productivity.
Whatever the outcome i hope the public of S.A.has the opertunity to vote for there needs and not to be pushed by the govt into something they dont really want. We all really would like a world class new hospital but at what cost, can we really afford it, and in this financial crisis where will the money come from...?
Having recently seen an aging aunty admitted to the F.M.C. hospital with a broken leg i was reminded of how bad our health system is and its faults. She is 89, was admittted at 7:00pm,and waited until 1:00pm to be x-rayed,and the family was told to go homeas she would be looked after, which they did. The following morning at 8:30am when her husband phoned she was still in the corridor waiting for a bed on a barouch, and a bed maybe available at 1:00pm that day. This and many other stories only highlight the need for better Health Facilities, our existing structure is just not coping maybe the money to be spent on a new hospital would be better spent on a general injection to all our majour health facilities as the existing system clearly does not cope.
How will a new Hospital improve our waiting times, waiting on elective surgery times and other treatments like outpatient clinics.
If we simply renew the R.A.H. either by redevelopement or build a new R.A.H. HOW DOES THIS IMPROVE AND REDUCE OUR TREATMENT TIME.
Is this problem being addressed or have lost focus on the real problem.
Now I've just heard first hand from an experienced Ambulance Officer, that they simply wont be able to cope with "extra runs from down the road, to the Dental Hospital.....we have enough problems at the moment, obviously they (Govt) didn't even think about our work-nor were we consulted, just like the Doctors" Typical. Please, everyone, write a letter (example shown) to your MP-everyone who counts!
Thank you to all RAH supporters who are continuing to discuss this issue. Now that the name controversy has been settled, the real issue can be dealt with - rebuild RAH, do not relocate!
Totally concur Jim. This is about principles, NOT about Personalities. Lets now concentrate on the real issue as mentioned above by Mr. Katsaros.
Full marks to Marjorie Jackson-Nelson for having more sense, alone, than this whole current government lined up side by side. At least she knows when to disassociate herself from those who have no sense left in their whole government.
and Now the truth comes out - the railways land is owned by the government and they do not have to ask permission of the Adelaide city Council to build on it - if they make it big enough as a 'major' project. So anything would be OK as long as it was 'showy' enough to excite this government. Except it has not excited the people who matter - the voters. This government is too smart by half (NoT).
This government is desperately grabbing at straws. What do you do for backbone Mr Rann? You are paid to lead, and show wisdom and common sense. Not run around like a headless chook looking for 'vote winning initiatives'
Maybe Marjorie Jackson Nelson might like to stand for parliament and become Premier instead? At least the voters know she can sense what really matters and what is a smoke screen.
Sometimes it is not money that places like RAH need. Sometimes it is empathy, kindness and enough staff to ensure that staff can actually find the time to do their jobs and do it with empathy, be caring and kind to sick people.
To the family who trusted their 89 year old relative would be OK in Emergency I can say that I would never leave a relative alone, especially an elderly relative, in Emergency of any public hospital.
If RAH is revamped I hope that a lot more empathy and improved staffing occurs in Emergency.
And due to the age mix in my family I have had to accompany several very independent and elderly relatives (all over 75 years) to hospital in recent years, to Emergency, prior to them being admitted.
In Emergency there are what appear to be drug addicts and people who need help from personnel at Glenside hospital alongside drunk and abusive people in Emergency.
Why would anyone ever go to Emergency unless seriously sick?
And even seriously sick elderly people need support when they do get serious problems that warrant a trip to hospital.
I wish my elderly relatives would time these occasions to occur between 9am and 5pm. (smiles)
But illness can strike at any time, and often does so late at night.
So eventually one gets more savvy.
My rule now is that if what appears to be serious illness, and hence Hospital and Emergency seem inevitable, that none of my elderly relatives will ever (now) go to Emergency unless in an Ambulance. I have seen the evidence with my own eyes - Ambulance patients get faster better care.
It is not worth driving there with the relative to just be ignored for hours by cold uncaring front counter staff in Emergency.
With an ambulance the staff seem to get cracking and be more caring in front of the ambulance staff and later, than to those sitting in the waiting area.
And (though i have no medical knowledge) each time it has been found to be true - that each relative was seriously sick (a burst ulcer, a heart attack, a serious electrolyte imbalance, pneumonia, and a serious kidney malfunction - the latter leading to one kidney now).
The staff in all Emergency places are run off their feet.
They may be (probably) suffering sleep deprivation and sometimes their patience is thin.
For the younger staff, sometimes, their tact is lacking.
Emergency areas in public hospitals are not nice places to be.
And an attitude adjustment for the front counter staff is in order, especially at the RAH.
The doctors are Ok, even if a little brisk at times. The nurses variable, maybe they care, but it is not always evident.
But the front counter staff would be too rude even as bouncers at a rough nightclub. And the Security staff make it feel extra scary.
Though Flinders emergency seems much kinder than RAH.
Public Emergency is the best advertisement I can think of to keep your Private Health paid up in full.
The difference (between public emergency) and St Andrews Emergency/ Flinders Private/ and sometimes Ashford - versus RAH and other public Emergency is like chalk and cheese.
Keep your private cover in order as long as you can afford it. And keep your ambulance cover up to date.
PLAYING WITH FIGURES...after yesterdays meeting with R.A.H. STAFF and the Minister for Health seems the ost figures looked a bit rubbery to me in favour of the govt's new hospital. Funny how the New R.A.H.cost is just a bit cheaper than the other 2 options of redeveloping here at the present R.A.H., maybe its just a coincidence.
Yes, anything is possible. Well they can't sign the contract, 'till after the next election.
We read in the Weekend Australian todayand article by Jaime Walker which I think says it all.
We read in the Adelaide Advertiser Weekend an article about John Bannon and the State Bank and the potential bankruptsy of this state in the early 90's which also should say it all.
The present premier was a junior minister during the time of John Bannon. He should remember what history is trying to tell him.
If you need to be reminded of the history, take a walk down to the Rem Centre in Rundle Mall and look at the building which almost bankrupt this state. The reason that Bannon got into so much trouble at that time, was that he failed to take good advice and only listened to those advisors who were close to him who continually gave him bad advice.
History may be repeating itself here but our premier is failing to listen to the lessons of history.
We do not need a new hospital (formally known as the Marj) as we already have a well functioning hospital which simply needs some upgrading.
Our children and grandchildren do not need the mortgage that this government is about to bestow on them by a government who do not seek advice or take advice, but only accept advice from a small coatery of advisors.
Even in todays Sunday Mail, the minister for health has admitted that he should have sought more counsel from the medical profession but having admitted that now simply wishes to proceed with a bad decision undertaken following bad advice. This is such a flawed and fundamentally wrong thought process that it defies description. Minister Hill, not nearly good enough. Minister Hill would not have accepted such flawed thinking in his former profession, why does he accept this from himself now?
Yes it's amazing what the retrospectoscope reveals. If it proceeds, then the prognosis has to be considered poor. Why??
this gov. is unbielevable. On friday McEwen said he was not going anywhere and by monday he has decided to resign. The premier said it was all McEwen idea. The premier then says that despite having previously said he would not replace McEwen if he resigned, due to the weather conditions he needs to replace him. Meanwhile Jaime Walker in the Australian has revealed the treasurer has given three different funding models for the new hospital. Ultimately, it will probably be the Marion Pool funding model which will apply. So at the end of the day ,who can you believe. This Gov. are really unbielevable!
The Government say it is cheaper to build on a new site than renovate an existing site.So why is the SACA rebuilding/renovating the Adelaide Oval rather than building on a greenfield site?Perhaps its because the SACA asked for advice and know what they are doing.
No-one is saying that The RAH doesn't require extensive work. That's a given. It can, however, be upgraded on its present, convenient site to keep it as a centre of excellence. I urge all to vehemently contact MPs, and others-this can't be allowed to go ahead, particularly, given all that is known by those who do know. Please keep this site/cause, strongly open! Please!
we know that the Gov. has allowed between 40m and 200m$ to clean up the railway site before they can even pour the first foundation. This demonstrates that they have no idea what is under those tracks. No-one has. Of course you can build alot of hospital on the present rah campus without the need for any cleanup for 200m$.
I have just been sent an article by one of my friends who is still in South Australia with comments from Jim Birch supporting the building of the new hospital formerly known as the Marj. Jim says that if we knew what he knows about the RAH, that we would want to demolish it and build somewhere else as well.
Jim, we would like to know a lot of what you knew at the time when you were CEO of the department of health under Lea Stevens.
For a start we would like to have your candid thoughts about the debarcle which occured under your watch relating to obstetrics and gaenycological services at Gawler.
When you have told that story you can tell us the story of what you know about various other catastrophies under Lea Stevens.
When you have cleared the slate of all of that then put us out of our misery and tell us why the RAH should be demolished.
Until then I choose not to put faith in your 'I know what I'm doing, trust me' approach.
Yes, I definately concur with the above remarks.
It's a case of the blind leading the non blind.
All steeped in gross ignorance, with decisions being made by non-clinicians. Where in the hell, is the money coming from for this manic, uninformed decision? We wont be fooled by "dramatic" pictures of chipped tiles, rusty plumbing etc. Look at other centres!
The real costs of new RAH:
-2.1 billion as starter.
-approx 200 million to clean/prepare railyard site
-lost of `old` RAH assets....approx. i billion !
-cleaning up old RAH site..... approx. ioo million
-relocating salvaged equipments eg MRI Scan.CAT Scans etc a few millions
It is clear the costs WILL NOT be 2.1 bllion.
Likely to be over 3 billion conservatively.
The danger is the govt. may be out of money halfway and we have neither new RAH nor a functioning old RAH.
Don`t TRUST the govt.!!
I suggest that Jim Birch wouldn't know.
Good luck with your protest letters to your local MP! I got a reply which consisted of more of the same old spin, extolling the virtues of the new hospital without in any way answering our questions about the location and how they have arrived at the costings. Also I'd like to know why, if a rebuild on site can be done elsewhere, how come we cannot be organised and clever enough to do it here?
can anyone tell us where we might see a hospital in australia or the world that is designed along the same lines as that being proposed for the new RAH. I would like to see a working one up and running before we spend two to three billion building our own.
To friends of RAH
SAVE THE RAH
DOCTORS` MEETING at RAH
Monday,16th March 7 pm
Eleanor Harrald Building, Robson Lecture Theatre
Please come and show your support.
We see in the Adelaide Advertiser today the real end game of this government and their plans for the RAH site, which they previously had said would be returned to Adelaides green belt. But now we see what is really the ultimate focus of their vision. DEVELOPERS. Finally this government being honest about their intentions.
Think the idea to save the RAH is sound, but was annoyed that, in typical arrogant Quakery fashion, the posters up in and around the hospital do not attempt to engage nurses, the cleaners, consumers and other allied health.
I am appalled at the overall lack of engagement in true consultation by Media Mike and His Disciples too, but think that the "medical fraternity" should put its snooty "better than everyone else" attitude to one side and engage all staff and users of the Health System
The Qld Labor Gov. are planning to rebuild the Cairnes Hosp. on the present site. Other groups in Cairnes are proposing to rebuild on a greenfield site. What is different about the Qld approach , and apparently the Tasmanian Labor Gov approach is that both these state Labor Gov.s are discussing these proposals with the comunity. The SA Labor Gov. takes a TOTALITARIAN approach that they were elected to rule, hence no discussion need be entered into. Why is South Australia so out of step with the rest of Australia?
"Saving the RAH" shows that we are not a totally disposable throw away society yet! A functional world class hospital does not necessarily mean "new". Think of "old" hospitals in London etc. I have written to my local MP and encourage anyone reading this to do the same. It is important to save our heritage whilst maintaining function. And the govt latest suggestion for the RAH site as an entertainment venue? maybe that should be a Victoria Square funtion.
``There is something rotten in the state of Denmark``
Don`t trust the Govt. on this one!!
I noticed a flyer up in the hospital "New RAH? vs Old RAH? the great debate - Dr David Panter vs Dr James Katsaros" - is this an open invitation for Wednesday or RAH staff only?
``New RAH vs RAH`` debate open to all interested Wed18 March.
Please come.
On monday night at the robson lecture theatre at the rah ,a theatre which holds 200, the place was filled to capacity with more in the isles and standing in corrodors; such is the interest and concern. The television cameras where present. So why have we seen no mention of this occurence in the Adelaide Advertiser? Perhaps tomorrow albeit a bit late to be called news. Anyway let me report that there was overwhelming support to rebuild the hospital on its present site( one disenting voter). The conclusion the Gov. will take from this is that this was simply a gathering of 200 retired semiretired and pathetically nieve people, apart from the one enlightened one who wanted to move. So much for concenses politics!
I have been waiting to hear reports of the meeting on Monday night, was there any plan of further action decided upon?
Likewise-as above. We need to be kept informed, with paperwork kept to a minimum, to save costs.
Would it be possible to have an "open day", pointing out all of the possibilities, maybe using a model once proposed not all that long ago by Prof. B Keirney? What about a simple CD/video for a cheap purchase? We cant let this rest!! Keep up the pressure and profile. I'll provide the aerial 'photos gratis.
The Monday night RAH meeting was filled to capacity.
There was an overwhelming vote to rebuld RAH. Two dissenters and three abstention.
The group opinion is that the people of Adelaide and SA has to be informed of the invaluable and unique properties of retaining and rebuilding RAH ,as they are the ones voting at the next referendum/election.
Essentially taking this vital issue to the streets of Adelaide!!
I attended the meeting on Monday 17th March at Robson theatre as an interested onlooker. The simple virtual tour through the P wing and acknowledment of the approx value of these newish facilities is surely enough reason to rebuild on site. Building anywhere else is a waste of taxpayer's money. This money should be spent on securing water etc.
I would suggest making available to the general public this same "tour " of the hospital so that everyone can see what wastage a demolition would be
All hospitals around the world, whether the Mayo Clinic in USA or Barts Hospital in London are continuously evolving. That is the nature of hospitals. One of the great advantages of the current RAH is its POSITION. Do not throw away this advantage, you will never get it back. The Gov. sould be concentrating on the most pressing issue facing the people of SA and that is WATER.
For goodness sake, Health is about People and the problem at the moment is that Politics is becomimg far too involved to the point of messing it all up.Politicians need to consult with Clinicians and ask them what needs to be done, NOT having Polital Administrators telling us what Clinicians should be doing.An expensive result of this having not been done, is now presently being played out in The Law Courts Of Brisbane!
I cannot understand why the Rann government is so myopic. Why build a new hospital in a silly site that will not meet South Australia's need when the population is doubled. It does not make sense.
And why not shift the interstate rail terminal to where Mr Rann wants the new hospital - it is the most logical place for the Interstate rail Terminal.
South Australia - try to be more visionary, please, so:
1. - relocate the current west beach (Adelaide) airport and Parafield airports all up to Two wells. Room for expansion and no flights over housing. Much safer.
2. relocate the "outer mongolia" (Keswick) interstate terminal for rail travellers to the Marjory Jackson site Mr Rann wants for the new hospital.
3.allow the creation os two new hospitals - an upgrading of RAH on the current RAH site next to the university AND ...
4.A second much larger site for a bigger hospital of the future using the Keswick barracks. Some of the land could be landscaped as gardens - and as future needs are identified eventually more and more of the site could become the new fantastic hospital of the future at Keswick
What South Australia needs is less of the small mind/myopic little focus of people like Mr Rann who are not visionary and cannot see beyond the next election date and their own "yes" people they surround themselves with
Can someone answer this question? I saw on Today Tonight, three university professors state that a fault line runs thought the site of the prososed new hospital at the railyards. One of these professors is from Melbourne and therefore has no secondary interests in this issue. John Hill says this is not true. So who is correct, the three proffessors or the Minister of Health?
I recently took a relative to the radiotherapy centre in St. Andrews. While I was there I asked one of the doctors about the design of bunkers for the linear accelorators. Apparently they do not need walls several meters thick, nor do they need to be freestanding. Someone should tell the Minister before he wastes alot of cement.
Could Leigh R Willis contact me via RAH switchboard?
A few things i can discuss with you.
Regards F Ghan
Will do Francis.
Congratulations to the Liberals for putting some options out there for us vters to discuss.
I do not know if I will like any of them but atleast they are on the table for us all to see.
Now that is what Labor should have done rather than this unholy mess that they have got themselves into which may cost them some seats at the next election that they did not need to lose.
I strongly urge all to read the June Edition of The RAH's Magazine (from 2006), where you will see obvious cases of prior, inconsistent statements having been made by Minister Hill. He talks in such strong terms of The RAH's Centre of Excellence through its Practice, Teaching Facilities & Research Facilities! Our own motto is "Service Through Teaching", however, I suggest Minister Hill is a Fraud. His activities clearly shown in this Magazine (and speeches), are obviously misleading and deceptive conduct-at its worst. I also refer you all to the letter in The Advertiser on 13th April 2006, from June M. Whiteford of Glandore-it makes a pleading from a greatful Patient. This appears in the same magazine referred to above.
Well, when I have my "regulation" Coronary Artery Bypass, I would sooner look out of the window & see beautiful greenery-NOT shunting Trains all covered in graffiti & see railway yards. The latter is referred to as Millieu Therapy-very much a basic consideration in planning!The railyard site is a just a manic, impulsive idea, which lacks both, insight & adequate consultation. Please don't allow this to proceed. Please! Fight the good fight!
GOOD TO SEE THE EDITOR OF THE TIZER ADMITTING that they have supported this gov through two elections 2002/2006 and over an unpopular tram and an unpopular hospital! now hopefully there will be a balanced debate in our press in line with the ethos laid down by Sir Keith Murdoch.
EDITORIAL for 7/4/9 was a landmark.
The treasurer has been critising the Tiser about not looking critically at the Liberals costings. Perhaps the treasurer could start by releasing the costings for the rebuild of the RAH as these where refused to Today Tonight, even under an FOI request! But this is not out of character for this Gov. as SA leads the other states in refusing FOI requests.
Interesting to see the GOV. interest at redeveloping Adelaide Oval to an AFL ground rather than go with Hamilton-Smiths proposal of building a new stadium. So why does the GOV. want to build a new hospital when the RAH is already half way there?
Well that dismal attempt re; the VRE, this am, (The Advertiser) doesen't do anything-to those who understand, to sway towards the move to the railyards. The article was only of interest to hysterical, ignorant folk, who simply don't understand-it may not be those folks fault. The inference is clear, but wont work. The article needs an explanation-NOT shifting the well known global problem to another site. It has the same degree of logic as my moving to a newer, bigger house, because rich people live in these style of houses, therefore, I will be more richer!
Good try-not. Well heaps of hospitals are now going to have to move elsewhere, to become VRE free! I think I know where the "super bugs" are.
Leigh you are correct.
I find it hard to follow this Gov, and this Ministers logic as they strive to justify the unjustifiable.
I have to once again agree with Hamilton-Smith that if we are to follow the Minister's logic, then we need to bulldoze QEH,FMC etc.
But the Minister should look at what Dr.Turnage said. The Doc did NOT say we need to build the New RAH, he said control of these bugs would be improved by single rooms.Correct.
These rooms along with sufficient staffing levels can be accomodated on the present RAH campus.
Actually, the microbiologists have been saying this for some years and this Labor Gov. has been sitting on its hands for the last seven years and the Libs before them!
To the Minister of Health, another "swing and a miss".
Proffessor Chris Burrell`s article in the Sunday Mail(19/4/09) has put rational thought back into the debate re SUPERBUGS.Now carry on.
Federal treasurer Wayne Swan has just informed Australia that the current world economic climate is going to send a "WRECKING BALL" through Gov. incomes, both federally and therefore at a state level. So is this really the time to be spending two to three billion dollars for a hospital that we do not need? Is our present state gov. looking at the bigger picture, or are they still checking MP's driving records! Good one Tom.
Yes, Dr. Turnage did NOT mention, nor suggest a new hospital, nor did he use this VRE matter as any justification for the manic thought of a new hospital elsewhere! The proponents for the latter are really clutching at straws in their desperate attempts to sway us.It wont work!! This Government, which is clearly showing symptoms & signs of damage control, I suggest, are in deep trouble with the all too well known pecuniary problems-at a global level. One doesn't need to be an Economist to see this one-which was clearly apparent last year. Oh what a co-incidence re; the sudden action by Minister Hill-me thinks that they were put on notice
lest there be any hint/s of negligence. I'm glad for this suddent action, which should have been done some years back-as assured.
The new RAH will provide South Australian's with a world's Best Practice health care facility.
The old RAH has been a faithful servant, however it's useful life is coming to an end. It cannot be rebuilt to adequately service the health care needs of South Australian's over the next 50+ years.
While those who argue loudly that the old RAH ought to be 'rebuilt' or 'saved', they forget the consequences for patients; a noisy, toxic and expensive 10 year build. This would compromise patient care and utterly fail to provide a theraeputic environment for the people of South Australia.
As a current RAH Registered Nurse, I appreciate the long and proud history of the old RAH, however we must not be afraid to embrace the future.
The new RAH will be a state of the art 21st Century Hospital from the ground up. Because the people of South Australia deserve world's Best Practice Health Care.
Speaking of "a noisy, toxic and expensive build" (supra), you will have one permanently! in the railyards-just ask any aeroplane pilot, who has been involved in 3 major re-builds. I'm one. Have you thought about the Millieu Therapy aspects? I suggest not. Work desperately needs to be done-thats a given-but not in the toxic railyards, which may be considered the Colostomy Bag of Adelaide.
I have been following this debate in the Advertiser and despite the admitted bias of the paper's editor as he admitted himself in his own editorial, this paper has been unable to produce a poll which gives anything less than 60% opposition to the new developement at the railyards. One poll even showed a 86% opposition to the Gov.'s plan! So when are they going to heed the public opinion?
FINIS
"I have finally kum to the konklusion, that a good reliable set of bowels iz wurth more tu a man, than enny quantity of brains" Henry Shaw, (1818-'85)-"Josh Billings"
The railyard "plan", prompts me to strong belief in the above quotation.
If Brad Crouch is correct, and he is a very good journo, then one outcome of Labors plans will be a new improved casino on the present RAH site. That would have the casino surrounded by the IMVS, the Medical School, the Dental School, the Hanson Institute, the School of Pharmacy and right next to the University. Sounds like a great plan to me.
The previous contributor is not correct about the institutions which would be surrounding a casino on the present RAH site.
I believe the Dental School is going to be moved.
Therefore, there would only be the Medical School, the Pharmacy School, the IMVS and the Hanson Institute surrounding any new casino developement; with the University at a safe distance on the other side of Frome Road.
The new precinct will be a schizophrenic mix ;only shortsighted and uneducated bunch of politicians we currently have could destroy a world class medical and research centre we currently have.Victorians are very proud of their precinct around the RMH and Med School.!!
What do you expect when `outsiders` non South Australians are our current political leaders.
During one of my many visits to the RAH last week, I noticed a shiny new sign up in the foyer, once again extolling the virtues of the new RAH and pointing out the deficiences of the current one. The Rann government are taking every opportunity to push their agenda for the new hospital and I fear the only way the RAH can be saved is if the ALP lose the next election.
SOME TIME AGO, some one asked where a hospital like the one to be built was up and functioning in Australia or in the world. I have not read a reply to this question. I have asked some of my doctor friends and they do not know of any such hospital.
Perhaps this hospital only exists in the minds of those burocrats who are advising the Minister.
I was in Britain last year and had occasion to visit a friend at St.Barts hospital in London. Parts of this are 600 years old. It has been rebuilt on site with great success and staff there are very happy with the result.
It can be done.
The budget came out last night and the Federal Gov are going to spend 2.5 billion on health in Australia. South Australia want to spend 2 billion on a hospital that we do not need.This Gov needs to get realistic.
Well, should this proceed, then expect a bankrupt state. Has it ever ocurred to This Government to consult those who do know? Me thinks not. Already, we are the laughing stock of other states,-in Sydney yesterday, I was asked "what the hell is happeningg to The RAH?"
Expect massive problems. PLEASE!, keep up the fight.
I, like many of my older friends, worry about alot of problems we face in this state. The current RAH is not one of them. Yes, it has been largely ignored by the present Labor Gov for the last seven years because of their hidden agenda,arrived at without asking anyone who might give them the wrong answer, like a truthfull answer.
The Libs were guilty to a lesser extent but it is about time the government of the day spruced it up.
The big problem we face is WATER, or lack of it.
Yes Mike ,the desalination plant is a good idea.
Perhaps we could name that after you and Kevin?
But why are we not harverting our storm water like they do in Salisbury?
Why are we not catching the water of our rooves?
Adelaide could be a "backwater" if Brumby would let enough water to go down the Murray.
Please Mike and Kev, do not waste money on building what we already have.
There are too many comments to read through now, but has anyone mentioned that the Royal Brisbane and Women's Hospital (RBWH) is the largest hospital campus in the southern hemisphere and was redeveloped on-site within the last decade? According to the Queensland Government Department of Transport more than 16,000 people visit the site every day, which is why a dedicated busway is being built alongside it now.
Where was the posting for the Sunday 21 June 2009 Save the RAH gathering at Rymill Park ?
If this group hopes to be effective, then it must post and announce dates for UPCOMING protests, gatherings well-ahead of schedule so more people can notify other people and plan ahead.
congratulations to the rann gov, for realising that the major problem facing this state is WATER, or the lack of it. To their credit they have taken the advice of Salisbury council and laid out plans to havest rainwater, not enough but at least they have made a start, without feeling any lost of face.
now if they could only apply this same thought process to the RAH, they may find out that they do not need to waste 3 Billion on a new hospital when we have a perfectly good one that just needs fixing up.
Having spoken to a number of my doctor friends, none of them know who these hundreds of doctors that the minister has spoken to and who apparently agree with him. Apparently they do not exist.
What is apparently true is that the minister is far to influenced by some blowin from Mother-England(God save the Queen).
What we are going to see from this state gov, is unbridled ARROGANCE as we are seeing in Parliament from Conlon and Foley.
looked at the gov website "the newrah gov sa"to get all this new information but there is no concrete information there. they have the usual "word salad " but no factual information so they is still no substance to there arguement. I am waiting to be convinced.
For those of you who are unaware of it, there has been a website set up which everyone should visit, including a video download which you can show to all those you know to convince them that the RAH should stay where it currently is.
VISIT: saverah.com.au
katsaris, u dumb greek, give up your campaign and get back to work and stop your whingeing!
jim
jimmymarr@hotmail.com
The new hospital proposal is now being used in the ALP's election campaigning - we are in the Waite electorate & the Labour candidate has sent us a letter asking us to vote for him because he is in favour of the new hospital. Also enclosed was an invitation to attend an address by the Health Minister John Hill on the topic of the hospital. This Government is riding roughshod over the electorate - what they really want is to build a monument to Mike Rann
Just spent time in Flinders Emergency. One could hear the sound of rebuilding and jackhammers just outside Flinders emergency. How come Flinders can be renovated while the hospital continues to operate at Bedford Park. But the RAH cannot be renovated? Seems government has double standards
I have spoken to nurses at RAH who say that some renovations are state of the art at RAH but that behind the scenes there needs to be upgrades to areas the nurses have to use. They think the state government is deliberately starving RAH of funds to continuously upgrade RAH so that people will become disgruntled with RAH. The state government surely would not be manipulative with the health dollar? Or would it do just they? They said they think yes.
If South Australia is to be fully ready to face the next one hundred years then the proposed site for the new RAH cannot pass muster. The site is limited and too small for inevitable expansion. A visionary government would be looking at using the whole of the Keswick Barracks for a hospital that would encompass enough room for ALL the facilities a top hospital must have AND also allow all the medical training and allied health training to also be contained within that huge Keswick Barracks site. But the site the government has chosen on North Terrace over the railway tracks is nothing but a glorified CLINIC. That new site is insufficient for the coming years for South Australians. Keswick Barracks does have the room and the potential to be a world class magnificent health hub. Something the government's chosen site can never be.
The RANN government seems hell bent on ignoring all who dare to have any view that differs from its own. Where is the consultation? where is the transaparency? And where is the willingness of the government to genuinely listen and take into account all that should be considered? Yes - there is no commitment by the government. Result is piled up plethora of bad directions and bad decisions. The proposed new RAH is nothing but a joke and so is the Rann government
As a manager of a building company, it makes far more sense to continue upgrading/replacing the facilities on the current site. No University degree is needed to see that the hospital compliments the surrounding Universities and the Botanical Gardens, which as mentioned earlier, is important that they are kept close. My daughter is currently studying Oral Health and having the facilities together is invaluable.
It ceases to amaze me why political parties have to always oppose each other. What happened to what's best for the people of Adelaide? New Stadium - Upgrade Adel Oval, New hospital - Refurbish Existing Hospital Site.
This government has lost touch with the people of Adelaide and their arrogance is so evident.
Anyway....let's look at the positives.
They have made my decision easy at the upcoming State Elections.
BTW......Mr Wright, I am not a member of the Liberal Party, nor have I been created by the Liberal Party.
Good Luck with "fight" and I hope common sense will prevail for the benefit of this unique city!
The new video on why the existing RAH should be saved is compelling. Well done. Why does Mr Rann and Mr Hill ignore the facts?
Congratulations! People with guts make this world go round! NOT THE ARROGANCE OF A SMALL GROUP OF PEOPLE WHO CALL THEMSELVES THE GOVERNMENT! Many made fun of the AEU and its members over the past 18 or so months BUT with determination, quiet dignity, staying power and being a BIG thorn in the Governments side guess who won in the long run? I'm optimistic that the public, teachers and anyone with commonsense will not be voting for the Labour Party! I'm proud to be South Australian and proud to want to Save the RAH!!!!
Save the RAH indeed. the history of the Royal Adelaide Hospital book states that that Royal prefix the this hospital was given to it by the king of england so how can it be taken to the railyard site? maybe Mr rann and Mr hill need another name change unless the Queen of England is coming over to do after the elaction.
Hi Jim! You probably won't remember me (oh, of course you would! -thru fam. members etc!) BUT I am still here BECAUSE OF THE RAH & IT'S FANTASTIC STAFF- SO PLEEEASE LEAVE IT THERE, SO IT CAN SAVE OTHER PEOPLE -JUST LIKE IT SAVED ME!! (New hospital means more money, whole new dramas, -if I'm right, -arent there a few areas @ the back of the RAH which are not even being used???)SAVE IT!!!! Kind Regards, Kirstey Whicker
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